The Trad: Charlie Davidson Predictions

29 July 2013

Charlie Davidson Predictions

"Let me tell you something, John. The whole Thom Browne skinny - faggy suit shit is over. It's dead." Charlie Davidson, The Andover Shop, 7/21/2013

38 comments:

WSTKS-FM Worldwide said...: Amen!

Best Regards,

Heinz-Ulrich von B.; 29 July, 2013 13:13
JKG said...: Don't know that I'd put it quite that way -- but I agree with the verdict.; 29 July, 2013 13:41
Anonymous said...: God bless and keep Charlie davidson!

G. Bruce Boyer; 29 July, 2013 14:35
brandon sargent said...: At his age, Charlie should know to watch his mouth - the sentiment not withstanding. Some of us don't tolerate that kind of language.; 29 July, 2013 14:44
WerewolfinExile said...: The world needs more men, who operate with a blunt honesty and sans-filter, like Charlie Davidson. Excessively trim shirts are a bane on modern men's clothing.

I just hope that posting that comment hasn't evoked the tyrannical and puritanical instincts of the so-called "tolerant."; 29 July, 2013 16:17
Anonymous said...: I bet he tells an off color joke with a gleam in his eye....ME; 29 July, 2013 16:48
Main Line Sportsman said...: I sure hope he is right....and I have no problem at all with the tone of his statement.; 29 July, 2013 19:00
tintin said...: Charlie is pretty close to 90 yrs old. He's seen a lotta shit - good and bad. Charlie knows a lot about a lot of things - even eggs - and someday I'll tell that story. But until then, Brandon, what you need to know is this...there's a thing called deference.

Faggy is a word that doesn't mean what you think it does -- Since, most likely, you were born when I was jumping outta planes.

And because our language often times is contradictory to our elders, there are some of us who call 'em out on it. I remember an old boss, John Gallagher, a WWII vet, referring to a Japanese insurance company as the "Japs" in front of a Malaysian Lloyd's of London underwriter. The u/w didn't give a shit. He was above it -- That and he wasn't Japanese but John G didn't know that.

Opinion comes with experience and Charlie has the right to an opinion. So do you. But don't berate a man because you come from different places and times.

All you have to do is nod, smile and be damned glad you got to see his picture because he's gonna kick my ass when he finds out I posted it.; 29 July, 2013 19:33
Anonymous said...: Bravo, as for the way its put, let the big dog bark; 29 July, 2013 20:04
Smitty said...: Tin, you get to Charlie and tell em Smitty's pissed! I've been skinny my whole life and such a reference is a low blow! I can deal with the thin word, but the S word just ain't right. In prep school when a kid drew a stick man, I thought he was making fun of me! That is how sensitive I am.; 29 July, 2013 21:38
Anonymous said...: Thank God! Now maybe we have a chance of seeing high profile types like Daniel Craig wear a suit with actual drape and not crumply cling.

Charlie Davidson simply looks like a man who has always had his on the pulse of mens' clothing trends. And more importantly, when to observe them and when to ignore them.

-DB; 29 July, 2013 21:57
Michael Rowe said...: Works for me.; 30 July, 2013 01:43
Enzo AGC said...: A great photo John.; 30 July, 2013 07:59
Hazen Pingree said...: Your lips to god's ears Charlie. I think that's great, and great that he said it that way. When these old codgers pass, we'll be stuck largely with milquetoasts that complain about how insenstitve guys like Charlie were.; 30 July, 2013 14:01
Anonymous said...: Gentleman,

I patronize the Andover Shop in spite of Charlie not because of him. He is a terribly unpleasant person and It seems more than a little sophomoric that he's suffered so willingly. His sense of style is to be admired, but the man himself is insufferable.

The whole attitude towards Charlie speaks of a collective Stockholm Syndrome.; 30 July, 2013 21:05
Squeeze said...: Loved being his competitor.; 30 July, 2013 22:48
Anonymous said...: Somewhat off-topic, but why doesn't the shop make anything with a 32 waist? I was told I'd have to special order if I wanted a 32. Seems like an extremely common size to me?; 31 July, 2013 08:41
1950 Marine said...: Faggy, narrow leg....I kinda liked that style until my Son gave back (9) suits that I gave to him when I retired.
I believed that they would help him to look like an executive candidate.
The suits are all Brooks Bros.
He did not wear any (or most)of them at all.
Corporate execs do not dress that way anymore.
I am very happy, because I still do dress that way.
Try to be sloppy in the Corps, and you will suffer....greatly.
Always like your blogs.; 31 July, 2013 14:22
Peter said...: I don't care that he used those words- and I'm gay. They're true and bluntly honest. Grow a pair, Brandon.; 31 July, 2013 20:05
WDM said...: Any time a functionally anonymous person on the internet says "I don't care, and I'm gay/black/female/Jewish/whatever" I immediately come to the conclusion that they're a straight white man with anger issues.

It's one thing to give an old man a pass for talking the way he always has. It's another thing entirely to praise it as though the casual use of slurs is somehow more honest or authentic. Ridiculous.

Being a gentleman is not about what you wear or what you drink or where you work or what university you went to, it's about showing respect to and consideration for others. It's what you do rather than what you are, and it's a process of education that continues over an entire life. We can always seek to show greater respect and extend our compassion further.

Forgive a man his imperfections, but do not hold insensitivity as a virtue. When you do that, you abandon the path.

That said, I'm very much in sync with his preferred proportions. Skinny lapels and short jackets might work on a rail-thin model, but they look silly as hell on me.

- Well-Dressed Mongrel; 01 August, 2013 20:25
Anonymous said...: Completely Wrong - and by what stretch of logic is objecting to his gratuitous insult bullying? Oh, bfd, he's 90 - he should have learned better by now - Kids are being bullied to death on our schoolyards today with that language and attitude. I don't really follow fashion and I couldn't care less if someone has been jumping out of airplanes or girdles - but - Undeferential? Why doesn't he show a decent amount of respect to the many gays who labored and contributed to his industry? Is he overcompensating for the fact that he's spent his life with his hands up mens' trousers?

Look at how the offensive word is proliferating in the comments. Do you want this?

I; 02 August, 2013 00:08
Drew said...: If I wanted obsequious service, I'd shop at Brooks. I look at a visit to the Andover Shop as something akin to going to the barbershop in Auburn, Ala. as an undergrad: You're going to hear stuff that might offend your sensibilities, but if you shut up and listen to the folks around you, and engage in shooting the shit with alacrity inasmuch as you can being Too Young to Know Shit while you wait (and you will wait), you might pick up on something. Even if someone tells you to hold still or they'll cut your ears off. Metaphorically speaking in the case of the gents on Holyoke. And Andover is actually less expensive than Brooks for some stuff, too.; 02 August, 2013 00:38
KSB said...: Isnt the right to offend essential in a free society? This particular "offender" flew bombers in WW2 and put it all on the line for that right. To me that's a hell of a lot more important than what smug internet scolds have to say.; 02 August, 2013 17:01
Anonymous said...: Ahhhhh, so Charlie feels very comfortable dropping bombs?

Smitty; 02 August, 2013 19:58
Thorsten said...: Aw man, I never even knew that was a thing. Now I feel bad because I missed out this great trend.

Wait... Actually, no. I was a happy person before I saw that guys would pay so much money to wear women's clothes.

ps: Substance over style, don't get foam infront of your mouth because somebody drops the f-bomb.; 03 August, 2013 01:07
Ace said...: Smitty: Impeccable.

KSB: The right to offend is fundamental to American society and is therefore enshrined in the First Amendment, which protects the citizenry from government censorship. The First Amendment also protects the right of others to express their opinion - i.e., for Mr. Sargent or myself to call Mr. Davidson's language offensive and inappropriate.

The right to free speech flows in all directions. It defends the seditious, the pious, the profane, the proper, all the same. The First Amendment is a shield against oppression, not a sword against the opinions of others.

- Well-Dressed Mongrel; 03 August, 2013 08:00
KSB said...: WDM - thanks for assuming that one except you has even a passing familiarity with the First Amendment. But you miss the forest for the trees on two counts.

First my point was that Davidson has earned his right to offend where most of us haven't (I won't assume that you haven't served as I will leave the casting of aspersions on a person's identity to you.) That doesn't make his rights superior to yours (this isn't Sparta after all) but perhaps as Tintin suggested a bit of deference is in order.

Secondly, to be offended over the term faggy when used to describe a poorly cut suit seems to indicate a willingness, almost eagerness to be offended. In a world where homosexuals are tortured and executed in the Middle East, are subject to arrest under dubious laws in Russia and 14 States still have sodomy laws in the US it seems your attentions should turn to more important issues - like Davidson did 70 years ago.; 03 August, 2013 12:51
Anonymous said...: Even my gay friends use words like "gay", "faggy" or "queer" to describe style or pop culture. It isn't necessarily a homosexual slam. How one goes off on a rant about schoolyard bullying after reading Charlie's comment is beyond me. Perhaps we need more violins on TV?; 03 August, 2013 18:15
Anonymous said...: Ahhhh, so Charlie must be.....gay?

Smitty; 04 August, 2013 14:01
WDM said...: KSB,

The it's-okay-because-he-was-in-WWII argument is terribly bizarre to me. It doesn't follow. But as I said: we should forgive a man his imperfections, not treat those imperfections as virtues.

As for the question of relative importance, remember that anti-gay harassment, gay bashing, and LGBT youth suicide are very real issues in America, and the amount of effort required to react to a person's use of slurs ("Hey man, that's not cool") is negligible.; 04 August, 2013 21:14
Navy Blazer said...: Charlie's use of "faggy" hit the nail on the head.; 04 August, 2013 22:12
Anonymous said...: saying "faggy" is the same as saying "niggery" if you don't understand that, well that's on you.

I served as well, so there's the weight of my words.

It's offensive, he's old, I pretty much chalk it up to "being an old man" but the language should die with him.; 05 August, 2013 00:37
Brummagem Joe said...: Oh boy this has rattled a few cages. He's right of course. A couple of weeks back my old lady calls me to see some guy on the morning show burbling about the importance of fit in suits for men and then proceeds to showcase several handsome young fellows all wearing bum freezer suits none of which fit...gaping necks, pulling buttons, all the usual suspects. These are going to end up with bell bottom pants, giant lapels, kipper ties and frilled evening shirts...I will fess up to once owning a frilled evening shirt aaggghhhhh

Anon...chill out dude; 05 August, 2013 11:59
Anonymous said...: I know Charlie and he is insightful with his comments about The end of another short lived trend in men's suit design. Seniority and authority combine to make a solid statement about design gone askew.

His language is used artfully to emphasize a point. He never intended anything derogatory by his words. Please lighten up everyone and listen carefully to an American treasure , Charlie Davidson.

Fred Wille; 05 August, 2013 20:43
Smitty said...: His language is used artfully to emphasize a point? He never intended anything derogatory by his words?

Neither did Jimmy the Greek; 05 August, 2013 21:23
The Ancient said...: What tintin said.; 12 August, 2013 17:29
Anonymous said...: My god, what a load of self-justifying BS on this thread.

Call the old man out on his hate language already.; 22 September, 2013 15:40
tintin said...: Anon- 22 Sep 13-
Big Man - Guess you enjoy kicking the elderly around.; 23 September, 2013 12:34